MoP Beta Files: Leveling Zen Alchemy

Alchemists are getting some significant changes to their leveling process in Mists of Pandaria. The vast majority of your recipes have been moved into a research/discovery system. The trainers will only teach you 2 recipes at 500 skill. These two recipes are used to unlock all of the other recipes in Zen Alchemy. As a result there is no set progression in crafting for skill points. That said, I've done my best to compile a guide that should help you get there as easily as possible.


First you should camp near your Alchemy trainer in Stormwind/Orgrimmar. When you log in, pick up the two discovery recipes: Alchemist's Rejuvenation and Master Healing Potion. DO NOT learn Zen Alchemy yet! You want to learn as many new recipes as you can before you begin the leveling process. You can see from the tooltip on both of the trainer recipes that they allow you to discover other recipes. It also says that discovered recipes can unlock recipes too. So making any Zen recipe has the possibility of teaching you a new Zen recipe. Unlike previous guides I've written, I am not recommending the use of older content recipes to get early skill points. The discovery process is too important for unlocking new recipes to bother with going that route.

Now you need to level Herbalism, which you can do by following my leveling guide here. Only in this case your goal is not to reach 600 Herbalism, just to collect the necessary herbs for leveling. You will need to progress to at least 565 so you can collect the snow lily needed for the harder recipes. The mix of herbs you'll need for Alchemy will vary depending on which recipes you unlock at the time they are helpful for leveling. It's quite possible to discover a recipe after it's already yellow, green or gray difficulty. For the purposes of this guide I'm going to prioritize recipes that use green tea leaf, followed by silkweed and then snow lily. These are the three easiest herbs to collect. Here is the list of materials you'll probably be using:

525: 40+ green tea leaf for discovering recipes
525-530: 5-10 green tea leaf for the first 5 skill points
530-540: 20 green tea leaf OR 10 green tea + 10 silkweed OR 20 silkweed
540-590: 80 silkweed + 80 snow lily OR 80 green tea + 80 snow lily OR 80 rain poppy + 80 snow lily
590-600: 50 ghost iron bars OR 5 golden lotus + 5 uncommon gems

For each step the easiest recipe is shown first, followed by the 2nd and 3rd choice. The recipe you select will depend on which recipes you discover. No matter what you learn, you'll need at least 2 stacks of green tea leaf and likely at least some silkweed.. I would farm 3 stacks of green tea leaf and 1 stack of silkweed to cover all your bases. Next, use those herbs to unlock as many recipes as you can by crafting Alchemist or Master Healing potions.

With any luck you'll discover Mantid Elixir (best option) or the Jade Serpent potion (2nd best choice) during this phase. Just keep making the first 2 potions until you stop learning recipes. Odds are you'll unlock about 7-10 recipes and then the discoveries will dry up. If you've cranked out 5+ potions without learning anything else, you're probably done until you skill up again. Now is the time to train Zen Alchemy. If you're already in Pandaria picking herbs, you can visit Ni Gentlepaw at Dawn's Blossom. Otherwise grab it from your trainer in Stormwind or Orgrimmar.

At this point, use your first set of discovery recipes to get to 540 skill. Hopefully making these potions will start to unlock more recipes that you can use for the next part. After 540 you'll probably need to move on to a harder recipe in order to get optimal use of your herbs. Hopefully you learned at least one of the recipes on the 540-590 list. If you didn't, you probably need to farm more green tea leaf so you can go back to crafting Alchemist/Master potions for discoveries. If you did, you can either move forward or you have the option to stay in research mode and unlock as many recipes as you can. This is up to you.

As on the previous step, I've listed the 540-590 recipes in order from easier to harder. Hopefully you discovered at least one of them, so now is the time to continue farming herbs. You need at least 4 stacks of snow lily and 4 stacks of green tea/silkweed/rain poppy. No matter what, you're going to end up farming silkweed in order to get access to snow lily. Once you have your 8 stacks of herbs, make 80 potions from the 540-590 list. You can do combinations if you happen to discover an easier potion while making one of the others. Once you finish making these you should be at 590.

When you reach 590 skill in Alchemy, the only recipes you can level up with require a Golden Lotus or metal bars. Currently none of the transmute recipes have cooldowns except Living Steel. No matter which option you take, you'll probably need a Miner to get these last 10 points. The transmutes are a better choice than flasks because each one gives you 2 skill points. I had originally planned a path that involved the gem transmutes, but after doing a timed Mining test I think the Trillium Bar recipe is the best way to go. I was able to collect 5 stacks of ghost iron ore in less than 15 minutes (12:52 to be exact), even with a handful of other folks farming ore around me.

So the last step is to grab your Mining toon, train Zen Mining and go to Pandaria. You can reference my leveling guide for Mining here for details on how to get there and where to mine. Collect 5 stacks of ore and smelt it all into bars (there's an anvil/forge at Halfhill). You should have 50 bars, which you can mail to your Alchemist. Convert these bars into Trillium and you should hit 600 Alchemy in the process!

Goblin Option
For those of you who are not pushing for a Realm First, I have a slightly longer but more lucrative path to offer for the last 10 points of Alchemy. Take your Alchemist to Jade Forest and head for the section of the river just north of the Serpent's Heart. Along the river bank is an area called the Slicky Stream. If you're in this spot (as noted on your mini-map) you'll see Stream Striders in the river, but if you wander too far away they phase out. They have about half the health of most mobs and drop Motes of Harmony. Motes of Harmony are your ticket to Golden Lotus =)

An alternate area with low health mobs is the Fox Grove. There are Mottled Caterpillars you can farm, but this area has aggressive tigers as well. The Fox Grove is on the east side of the river opposite Nectarbreeze Orchard. Hopefully you got a few Golden Lotus while you were picking herbs, if not you can use the striders  or caterpillars to farm motes of harmony.

For each Spirit of Harmony you collect (made with 10x motes) you can trade for 3 Golden Lotus. Once you have enough motes to bring your Golden Lotus count to five, you can travel to the Vale of Eternal Blossoms to exchange your SoH for lotus. So worst-case scenario is you have to farm 20 motes of harmony, which can be done in 2-4 hours (average of 90 minutes per 10 motes).

If you want to go with this plan, I advise that you make a detour during your herb gathering. When you're ready to leave Kun-lai Summit, travel south down the road through Winter's Blossom. Go past Kota Basecamp all the way down to the Shado-Pan Fallback. Run inside the tower there and take the stairs up to the top. From here follow the wall south - the Vale of Eternal Blossoms will be on your left. Before you reach the next tower, jump over the wall and into VoEB. You shouldn't die from this fall.

Now ride all the way across the zone to the southeast corner. You should reach a city called the Shrine of Seven Stars (Shrine of Two Moons @ NE corner for Horde). Go up the curved stairs and in toward the semi-circle balcony. At the  far edge of the balcony is Krystel the Spirit of Harmony Vendor. She will trade your Spirits of Harmony for a variety of crafting materials. Horde players can take the road north after they pass the Golden Pagoda. Danky the Spirit vendor is standing in front of the large tree on the upper balcony.

You'll still need ore to do the gem transmutes, but much less than with the trillium path. I think 1-2 stacks of ore should be enough to get 5 uncommon gems. Once you have your 5 lotuses and the 5 gems, do the transmutes and you should reach 600 Alchemy. On top of this, you'll have some rare gems to sell!

Realm First Seekers
If you end up with recipes that use more difficult herbs (like rain poppy) this is probably going to hurt your chances for a Realm First achievement. Farming any herbs other than the three I've listed in the Herbalism guide will take you longer and put you behind someone else who doesn't need those herbs to skill up their Alchemy. The reason for this is that all of the 540-590 recipes require either Fool's Cap or Snow Lily. Of those two, snow lily is the easier one to collect. In order to pick any of the higher herbs, you need to farm several stacks of silkweed to get your skill up. Therefore the easiest recipe to use for leveling Alchemy is the one that uses silkweed and snow lily (aka Elixir of Perfection). Anything else and you are picking extra herbs on top of what you collected during the Herbalism leveling process.

At 540 if you haven't learned Elixir of Perfection, you'll be at a disadvantage. If you only have Virmen's Bite or Elixir of the Rapids, you'll need to go back to VotFW or Jade Forest and farm 4 extra stacks of herbs to continue. Personally I would farm one stack of green tea leaf / rain poppy, then make 10 potions and hope you discover Elixir of Perfection in the process. You could do another round of 10 potions if you still don't learn the Perfection recipe. Beyond that I think you probably need to write off a Realm First since other players are very likely ahead of you due to better luck with discoveries. I don't say this to scare anyone off the process, just to make sure you are aware of what you're up against if the discoveries don't fall your way.


TLDR Version

  • Farm at least 3 stacks of Green Tea Leaf and one stack of Silkweed.
  • Follow the Herb leveling guide (Do not leave VotFW unless you have 5 stacks of Silkweed. Do not leave Kun-lai unless you have at least 4 stacks of Snow Lily.)
  • Crank out 40 Alchemist/Master Heal pots to discover recipes.
  • Make 5-10 discovery potions to reach 540 skill. Check which recipes you learned.
  • If you have Elixir of Perfection, make 4 stacks of it, otherwise farm 8 stacks of rain poppy or green tea leaf. Then make 4 stacks of potions with the herbs you collected.
  • Farm 5 stacks of ore on your Mining toon and smelt into bars
  • Make 5 trillium bar transmutes (has no CD)

If you find any part of this post confusing or vague, please leave a Comment so I can fix it!

43 comments:

  1. I havent tried alchemy on beta, so thanks for this guide! If i understand you correctly, there is no need for returning to a trainer after learning the first two recipes? I like this :) Alchemy + herbalism = win!

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    1. Yes, I think anyone with Herbalism + Alchemy on the same toon will be at an advantage since they can pick herbs and make potions on the spot. But no, I went back to the trainer several times to spot check and they never had anything for me.

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  2. Another thought for those not shooting for realm first: Every month Darkmoon Fair comes in giving 5 free points for each skill. With Mists going live on Sept 25th, that should mean that Sun Oct 7 (a mere 12 days after Mists goes live) there are 5 free alchemy points just waiting to be had.

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    1. That's a good point and will work for any profession. I suspect there are other tradeskills more in need of the boost than Alchemy, but it sure doesn't hurt if you're still working through it :)

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  3. Anything special for the daily obsessed? I hope to resist the Siren's Song of all RF and alchemy will be easy. But I would like to maximize c/d - i.e. get an alchemist or two or a scribe to the c/d, preferably before 3AM and certainly for day 2. As you do your guides, if there is anything you think of that will help us cooldowners, it would be appreciated.

    Is there anything more than just following your guide to 550 and then doing the transmute? Although I have a sinking feeling I am still stuck in the old paradigm and that in these latter days c/d don't matter - just how many beasts you go grind for SoH. A contest my crafter alts and I shall not find fun.

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    1. It shouldn't be that hard to get your Alchemist leveled up on Day 1, although the only CD they have is Living Steel. Not sure you'd actually score the mats for that one so quickly, but you can try :) As for Inscription the only CD I've gotten to is the Scroll of Wisdom which is easy if you have a stack of green tea leaf (for ink). The DMF cards require you to cap, so that's a different story that I haven't dealt with yet.

      As for the SoH thing, there's another option. Motes can be collected on your farm. If you're looking for a way to keep up with crafting and avoid grinding mobs, I would tackle farming ASAP on all your toons. They need to be level 90 to unlock the crafting seeds, so prioritize who to level up based on their need for SoH.

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    2. Yes scribe seems like top priority since I can make SoW even if I won't have the skill to use them for a while

      I am sorry I need to double check before asking; this new paradigm is confusing. So alchemists have transmutes at 550 but they are not gated by daily c/d; rather they are gated by the Evil Bane of Alchemy: the Golden Lotus.

      It looks like unlike cata, less than max level alts are much worse off. At 90, alts can do the rep for the faction recipes, cooking dailies and tiller dailies. (guessing fishing is same?)

      Level 85 alts can do: 600 Alchemy LS, Scribe SoW, and whatever Kaliope tells us about in future installments of the "Kaliope is Amazing" show.

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  4. Hagu can you explain the CD reset to me? I've been trying to find it because a post on the consortium forum majorly confused me (it said everyone in the US would have from 2359 to 2059 to get our CDs in. I can't even figure out what timing system he's using, since he appears to be going backwards from 24) but I thought the alchemist xmute CD resets at midnight realm (and that's the only CD reset I could find on google), which would mean we were already past the reset at launch.

    I think, from what I've gathered elsewhere, dailies reset at 3am realm, but no one will reach 90 in 3 hours so it's not applicable. If for professions CDs were on the same reset as the dailies you could do one if you were on a PST realm, and potentially a CST realm if you were good, but not an EST realm (since MoP launch is at 3am Eastern).

    If he means from 0001 when it launches (or 0301 on the Eastern realms, for example) until 2359 at the end of that day, you wouldn't be able to get an extra one in, and you also wouldn't have to rush. Even if you were on an Eastern realm you'd easily be able to get to that point in 21 hours.

    So, I'm just totally confused about the whole getting in a CD before reset thing. Please save me from my stupor!

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    1. The only non-lvl90 daily I can think of in MoP is planting crops in your farm.

      When Cata came out, the WotLK profession dailies stopped giving skill at 475, so I suspect the dailies in Stormwind will do the same.

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    2. It is confusing and I am confusable but here is my understanding. (tl;dr: you're right Blizzard is going to spell not quest c/d so midnight is the real driver.)

      There are three Blizzard days with different cutoffs: instance reset and two daily cooldowns: profession-spells and daily quests

      All times seem to be server times. WoWpedia does not give specifics just saying it is realm-specific. My realm and I are in GMT-8 (PST/PDT)

      I can do Living Elements transmute at 23:58 server time and then do it again three minutes later. Same for dreamcloth.

      Dailies, even profession dailies like cooking have a different time. I try not to be up, but it is usually 3AM. Although in the past I think Blizzard was not clever enough to account for DST and so some months it is 3 AM and sometimes it is 4. IIRC, this confusion(bugs) is how some people were able to get the firelands patterns a day early. I think you could get an extra daily quest turn in from 03:00 to 04:00 before the hotfix. It helped focus my attention on the issue that daily resets matter.

      You are probably correct and it is a non-issue and we have a full day. But in cata, things like the JC daily both reset at 3AM server time (3 hours after my launch) and did not require you to be 85. If everything goes away from daily c/d via quests (e.g. live JC/cooking/fishing) where I would have 3 hours on 9/25 to daily c/d via spell c/d (living elements( then there is no 3AM timeline for me. There are not even cooking dailies until 90 it seems (SW cooking daily was great for moribund alts.) I will turn in my Monday SW cooking daily Tuesday morning right after 0:00 for quick XP so if I am back in SW after 3:00 and its Penny's pumpkins I will probably do it for XP.

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    3. Thank you Hagu! you cleared up my confusion and showed me that i was understanding it correctly, (i think ;)). I could do an extra SW cooking daily too, since I'm on a central server, but no extra profession CD. Add 4. Ask Hagu to your list from before lol

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    4. Thank you Hagu! you cleared up my confusion and showed me that i was understanding it correctly, (i think ;)). I could do an extra SW cooking daily too, since I'm on a central server, but no extra profession CD. Add 4. Ask Hagu to your list from before lol

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    5. Hagu has all the correct info.
      But just to add more confusion MoP has added another timer.
      Farms produce at 01:00 server time.

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    6. Thanks Desade.

      I do hope it is 1AM fixed!


      http://www.elsanglin.com/tillers_farming.html
      linked to
      http://mop.wowhead.com/news=205091/mists-of-pandaria-the-tillers

      Which says "After a day or so (there's inconsistent growth patterns), you can harvest the crop."

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  5. If you start at 525 skill, and make 40 Alchemist's Rejuvenation, you're likely going to be at skill 535. With luck, you can drop the first 40 crafts; the downside of this, is that you might not get a good recipe by 530.

    When you mentioned the "Goblin option", I thought you were going to point out they have +10 Alchemy. But with the discovery system, this will give them no advantage since they have to reach 610 skill to max, so they will have the same problems going from 600-610 that the rest of us will have going from 590-600.

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    1. Hehe, I meant Gold goblin not racial goblin :) I included the 40 Alchemist potions just to make sure they have enough mats to discover one of the three listed recipes. If you learn Mantid Elixir right off the bat and you want to move on, that's fine. Sadly I made 50 Master Healing potions and never learned the Mantid recipe until 541, after I needed it. The 40 potion target should allow players to fully discover all the potions they can unlock without skilling up again.

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    3. NVM

      Both Wowhead and Wowdb both still list Transmute: Trillium Bar as a 600 recipe which would only make it available to Goblins for the last ten points.

      Back in my day, you knew what level a recipe was and when you got it - not some discovery like these kids today. :-) (and sush anyone who can remember laboratories - My theory is MoP is Vanilla reskinned)

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    4. Well I learned xmute Trillium @ 582 so clearly there's some variability. I would say if you don't get it by 590, keep cranking discovery potions until you do. Else you can switch and do gems transmutes if you think you can get those mats quicker. Hard to say which is faster in that scenario.

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    5. And yes, I remember the friggin labs and I did *not* appreciate having to use them.

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  7. Did I see recently that Bliz relented on the mana potion requiring GL? I don't care how my alchemists and herbers feel because my healers are so relieved. Unless the new mats come out worse ofc.

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    1. Yes you did! I'm very happy about that too because it means that Blizzard is actually listening to our feedback and making changes in a timely fashion :)

      The new mats are not worse, it's just some snow lily and silkweed or something like that. I don't remember but I think it's in my lists that are rolling out tomorrow.

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  8. I copied over another character who was 525/525 in archaeology, didn't train him and went to Jade forest.

    All 4 Arch sites were in Jade, and whenever I dug one out, the replacement was in jade. I'm not sure what the restriction was that kept them from populating elsewhere, but it could be very useful for anyone trying an archy realm first.

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    1. I'm pretty sure they start popping up in harder zones the higher your skill gets. Kaliope never had any pop up in Kunlai until she started skilling up, then they were popping there more frequently. I don't see a RF Arch being too difficult since it's possible to navigate most zones at level 85.

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  9. Once I hit alchemy skill 600 I learned the transmutation that requires SoH.

    After that I made a few pots with green tea, and learned the metagem, the missing rare gem recipes and the turning ghost iron into trillium almost immediately.

    It may be obvious to everyone else, but I was surprised that a much lower grey recipe would still give discoveries at 600 skill, with nearly 100% success rate.

    Here's hoping I get the iron to trillium recipe earlier than 600 skill when it goes live. I'll need the trillium, and I might as well get some skill for it.

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  10. I had learned all but 3 recipes by the time I capped at 600. Riddle of Steel was one of my missing recipes, so I made another 20 potions and learned all 3 of the recipes I needed. It's not difficult to discover the full set of Alchemy recipes, the trick is discovering the optimal recipe when you need it.

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  11. I know probably not the right location to ask... For all professions - not only alchemy - is there a level cap you need? As far as I know there isn't one? Can you/anyone confirm that?
    With Cataclysm you needed to be 83 for professions like leathermaster, tailor or blacksmith to be able to by certain recipes to reach 525.

    Has anybody an answer, if ALL professions can reach 600 with only beeing 85ß
    THANKS!

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    1. I did this Alchemy leveling guide on an 85 warlock - most of my other profession tests have been on 85 toons as well. I try not to level up in the Beta so I can accurately emulate what players will face when they arrive on a new continent.

      So far in MoP I have not run into any significant content roadblocks (like the phased zone thing with LW/BS/TL). The throttling mechanism this time around seems to be the Spirit of Harmony.

      At this point I haven't tested all the professions, I still have 3 more to go. But I have leveled Alchemy, Archaeology, Cooking, Herbalism, Mining, Skinning, Enchanting, Leatherworking, Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting with no serious problems for an 85.

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    2. There are plenty of recipes that are unavailable until you reach lvl 90, just like in Cata you had to be lvl 84 to get the recipes locked up in the Twilight highlands. These recipes are held by factions that you can't gain rep with until then.

      But there's nothing to stop you from getting 600/600 skill in all professions at 85 within a few hours of going live (although full mastery of all cooking recipes may take over 24 hours, there are ALOT of ingredients needed). Kaliope's guides are step-by-step instructions for lvl 85.

      I believe there's no equivalent of the chaos orb that could only be acquired from lvl 85 heroic dungeons. Some mats will be as rare as hen's teeth, and SoH are BoP so your crafters can't just sit in town, but all the mats are all available if you've got the time.

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  12. I've ended up wanting Fool's Cap too, but those don't pop up until later scarier zones. Did you exclude those recipes for that reason?

    I won't be trying for realm first on my alchemist, she'll be getting leftover herbs as my scribe plows through. As a result, I'm more interested in making the pots/flasks I'll find most useful.

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    1. Yes, Fool's Cap is out because it's only in the highest zones and the mob density there is harder to avoid. If you're not doing a RF I would definitely take your time and max out your discoveries. This will let you get skill points for all the good recipes =)

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  13. Hi,

    Really nice guide. It'll help me a lot for the release.
    Maybe I've misunderstood something but I don't get the trick for learning Zen Alchemy later. What will be different if I learn Zen Alchemy and then craft pots?
    Does it prevent from getting the optimal way for leveling ?

    Thanks

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    1. The trick for learning Zen Alchemy later is to allow you to make many of the 500 potions (Alchemist/Healing) without getting skill points. You may want to make as many as 40 of those potions to unlock as many recipes as you can. This gives you the widest variety of recipes to start your leveling process with. Now if you don't want to bother with that, you can certainly level by making those until you discover a different recipe you like better. The suggestion is geared more toward unlocking as many recipes as you can up front so you can streamline the leveling process moving forward (aka, discover the best recipes to utilize your herb stash).

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    2. Sorry - I still don't get that. Why can't I just learn Zen Alchemy und craft as many of this 2 starting potions, until I discover the ones I need? Or is the discovering somehow capped (e.g. reaching skill 540, then no discovery is possible anymore)?
      Thanks a lot!

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    3. There appears to be a hard cap on how many recipes you can discover in any given range. Once you've maxed it out, you won't learn anything else until you level up more.

      The system will let you learn about 8-10 new recipes at 525. And another 8-10 until 540. If you start leveling up right away, you'll be in the zone of the second hard cap and miss out on the first one.

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  14. Kaliope,

    First i want to say, thank you so much for the blog it is really helpful.

    I do have a question on alchemy and I how it's not too stupid lol.

    Why do you wait to train Zen Alchemy?

    Thanks

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    1. Pretty much the same reason as the question above. You don't have to do it that way, but you'll have the widest variety of recipes if you cap out discoveries before you unlock Zen Alchemy. And you increase your chances of unlocking one of the "optimal" recipes I've listed. You certainly don't have to do it this way if you're not seeking a Realm First or just prefer to take your time with it.

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  15. I feel stupid for still not fully understanding the do-not-train-Zen-alchemy-part.

    Do you mean that once Alchemist's Rejuvenation and Master Healing Potion turn grey, I will not be able to discover new recipes by crafting them?
    If I will still be able to discover recipes when these two are grey, why not get some skill points for making these since the mats are so "low", and then just continue to craft them for more discoveries?

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    1. Yes, the number of recipes you can learn is capped. By maximizing discoveries before you skill up, you can get 5-10 more recipes in your arsenal. If you level up while discovering, you may only learn a handful. But it's possible to learn as many as 20 if you do a bunch of discoveries at 525. If you unlock Zen Alchemy first, you'll reach 540 before you learn that many.

      The trick is that you want to increase your chance of learning one of the recipes on my list above. If you have to skill up with a different recipe, you'll waste herbs.

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  16. Kaliope,

    I really appreciate this guide. After I got the Realm First for Zen Master Herbalism, I was (with a bit of luck) able to get the Realm First for Zen Master Alchemy after looking up this guide. Thanks a ton!

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  17. Kaliope,

    First of all, love the site, it's so helpful and such a great resource for the community.

    I don't know if this is the correct place but am I seeing this correctly? Every transmute (except ore) needs a Lotus (can get from spirit of harmony)? Every flask needs a Lotus as well? Pretty much means for every hour (2with perk) of raiding the alchemist needs a little more than 8 spirits if you are turning these in for exchange? In the over 1000 herbs I have picked I have only seen 3 lotus on the ground (I used for the trinket) and after clearing out the Jade Forest questing I only have 7 motes. I am still in lowbe zone so hopefully there is some secret Lotus picking zone somewhere up ahead :)

    I really hope I am misunderstanding this process because I have been a loyal alchemist for 7 years and I really don't want to give it up.

    Thanks
    Night

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    1. Every rare gem transmute needs a lotus (not meta gems or metals), every flask and the Potion of Luck. There is no secret lotus-picking zone, the spawn rate seems to be random across the whole continent. The drop rate is very low, I only found 4 or 5 the whole time I was in Beta.

      I believe most folks will end up trading SoH or using their farm to collect lotus eventually. Once you are Revered with the Tillers you can plant SoH and collect motes that way. You can also use herb plants which pop up lotus about 10% of the time.

      If your raid group is making you do all the work for flasks, they don't deserve them IMO. Any one of those 25 players can turn in their SoH and put lotus in the guild bank for flasks. If none of them will, they're being selfish and they should start contributing. Surely each person can donate 1 SoH (converted to lotus) a week to help out with flask production.

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