MoP Beta Files: Special Report on Mote of Harmony

I think many of us are curious (or anxious) about the situation with Spirit of Harmony. The drop rate on the Beta realms is really poor and yet many recipes require them. In the latest patch, a new piece was added to the puzzle. It is now possible to collect a Mote of Harmony and turn 10 of these into a Spirit of Harmony. This would seem to bring us back to the model of the primals and eternals. We've been seeing some anecdotal evidence on motes, so I took it upon myself to do some testing and learn more about how to get them.

I decided to pursue all four methods of collection and track the drop rate for each. The four methods were killing mobs (loot drops), skinning, herb picking and mining. I started out with mobs since Kaliope would be able to multi-task and skin the mobs. For a location I chose Valley of the Four Winds - a level 86 zone. The mobs here range from 85 to 87. First I killed non-aggressive turtles that had relatively low hitpoints and dropped turtle meat used in Cooking. I killed about 50 of those and then switched to crabs near the southern coast. After taking down another 50 crabs I had skinned 100 mobs and looted 100 mobs. The end result is that I received 0 motes of harmony from Skinning and 9 motes of harmony from looting. It seemed that I was getting a mote of harmony about every 10 kills or so.

Next I tackled the herbs and ore, just to see if I'd have better luck. On my herbalist I collected herbs from 50 nodes of Green Tea Leaf in Valley of the Four Winds. With my miner I collected Ghost Iron Ore from 50 nodes, also in VotFW. I did not get any motes of harmony from either farming session. I'm feeling pretty confident that gathering is not a viable collection method for motes of harmony. At least for now, killing mobs appears to be the only way to find motes or the rare Spirit of Harmony.

The TLDR version: 
Mob Kills = 100 | 9 Mote of Harmony
Skinning = 100 | 0 Mote of Harmony
Herb Nodes = 50 | 0 Mote of Harmony
Ore Nodes = 50 | 0 Mote of Harmony

Some things to note about the new elemental components. Unlike previous expansions, there are not types of motes/spirits such as shadow, fire, etc. There is just one type of mote and one type of spirit, which should make collection less complicated. Secondly, motes and the spirits are both BoP. This means you'll have to farm them on the toon who needs them. Spirit of Harmony is used in most of the current professions. So far only Enchanting appears to be immune. If you plan to craft rare and epic items, you'll likely have to play that character to collect motes. Not all rare/epic recipes require Spirit of Harmony but the majority do.  I think we should assume this is Blizzard's way of prodding the crafter who never leaves town.


  1. I also noticed that they stack over 10 motes, but once you turn them into a spirit of harmony, they can't be turned back into motes.

  2. Interesting, I guess that would mean you should store the motes and only convert to a spirit when you're ready to craft something.

  3. TYVM

    It would be very annoying if gathering dropped motes - at least for the now traditional miner/herber or any dual gatherer alt. (E.g. my panda and monk alts will be M/H from 1-84 for XP and profit.) They would get an otherwise valuable item that is of no value to them.

    I so dislike & disagree with the BoP decision.

    I shall be watching your "Leveling ..." posts for two SoH things: how many to level and "ongoing needs". Let's see - 200 DM cards a month would take 22000 Mob kills a month. Which raises the question, LotRo or SWTOR? /sigh /QQ

    1. You wont be able to produce 200 DM cards a month on a SINGLE character since they require the daily cooldown Scroll.

    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

  4. Hagu: You're point about dual gatherers is a good one. I'm not in love with the BoP thing either since the drop rate is so low. I think even folks who play on their main will have difficulty collecting SoH when one epic item can require as many as 15 of them. That's 1500 mobs - ouch. Perhaps this will be eased somewhat if they also drop in dungeons and raids, but then you have the inevitable bickering on that end.

    I will definitely be focusing on the SoH problem when I do my leveling guides. Not only will most of us NOT be playing every toon we want to skill up our professions with, but I will absolutely not be leveling every toon I have on beta just to test professions. Farming mobs for SoH will also be a big inconvenience to Realm First seekers. So it will be interesting to see how much trouble I have capping with this new dynamic in the mix.

  5. DM cards sorry 1 card per day besides the SoH they take scroll of wisdom and it is on 24hr cool down.
    As for leveling race to the top I have gotten Tailoring, Alchemy, Inscription, and BS to 600 without using SoH going to attempt LW tonight.

  6. I'm currently worried about the drop rate for lotus as well. I've seen 1 total on my way to 90, and as a raider in a raiding guild... well, we use a lot of flasks. From 89 to 90 I picked up 15ish motes. I enjoyed BC, but this kind of farming will make my life difficult. I haven't run a dungeon since they started mote dropping. That will be my next test.

  7. Same here, I've only seen 2 lotus the whole time I've been in Beta. Meanwhile I've farmed at least 50 stacks of herbs. That doesn't bode well for flask making. I really hope they bump that up.

  8. I've also only seen 2 lotuses (loti?) and I've farmed over 100 stacks of herbs trying to get some to spawn. As I said on your last entry, Kali, I'm stuck at 582 alchemy, with the only recipes available either requiring herbs that are NYI/we can't get because Jade Forest is locked, SoH, or Golden Lotuses. Since I've only received 6 SoH total while leveling to 90 and doing daily quests, I'm saving them.

    My experience on my main has been really horrible for SoH motes. I farmed 100 turtles, the occassional crane, and some birds, and only received 6 motes. However on my ench/jc alt I received 2 motes during my first two or three quests in Krasarang (and if I remember correctly, neither quest involved looting monsters, so these were random kills), and on my mine/bs alt who I went around and leveled mining on (but left at level 85) I received 2 from killing <5 tigers or mantids that aggro'd while I was mining. FWIW I also didn't receive any motes from mining and I went all the way to 600 - which took a LOT of nodes since the normal Ghost Iron started only giving skillups once every 4-10+ nodes at around 580.

    It's anecdotal, but I'm wondering if the mote drop rate is higher for non-maxed toons. I've been in the same zones on my main, so I don't think that it's a zone thing.

    Desade, you must have gotten a really incredible rate for Golden Lotuses to be able to level Alchemy - where did you find them?

    Even if they remain BoP for now I'd love for the SoH motes to drop from gathering, but that's because I believe eventually they will make them tradeable (like chaos orbs). If you value gathering at just the herbs/ore/skins, then the SoH would be extra value and will eventually have access to. The eventually part does annoy me, but you're not really losing anything by gaining them from gathering as well as mob killing. And, it's more the normal style for SoH motes to be obtained from gathering - were able to get crystallized and BC motes from gathering, so why change it now?

  9. Snowy high mountain area north west part of Kai-lai Summet there are 4 spots that seem to ONLY spawn GL (SHHHHH don't want them changing it!!!)

  10. I have a working gathermate2 and Routes.
    (Fixed API myself and added new LibMapData from wowinterface)
    So I have been mapping all the mining and herbing locations.
    Sending locations to Author for and update to the GM2 data files.
    Almost 90 on my gatherer flying will help speed it up !!!

  11. Flock: I did my skinning/looting test on a level 90 toon (Kaliope) so I'm not sure how that helps your theory. I probably farmed the same turtles you did :) It may be that the drop rate is just that variable.

    Personally I'd like to see them put SoH on a JP/VP vendor (in the new spirit of "having options"). It can still be a soulbound item but with an alternate way to get your hands on them if you have horrible luck on drops. I can see this SoH thing being a significant barrier to Alchemist and JCs since flasks and rare gems are both married to this blockade. Not to mention trying to get raid geared, my poor druid would need 30 SoH just to make herself two epics. But with drop rates this low, I think it's enough of a barrier to collection without the soulbound restriction.

    It wouldn't surprise me if there were some high level locations that give better Golden Lotus, that's pretty common with Blizzard (Wintergrasp). Since they just enabled addons in the latest patch, that information wouldn't be widely available yet. That said, it will still make life difficult for Realm First players since many won't be level capped but will still need those items.

  12. About the lotus situation: the only lotusses I have seen were in Jade Forest, in locations where you'd expect Rain Poppy to appear. That would suggest Golden Lotus is a rare spawn of Rain Poppy. As Rain Poppy only grows in Jade Forest, and Jade Forest is off-limits right now, that would explain the rarity of Golden Lotus. It doesn't really make sense to organize Lotus spawns that way, but I guess it means Blizzard isn't done yet with their pandaria herb spawn design.

    About the spirits: it is really strange and pointless to have them dropfor everyone, but people without a trade skill that could use them cannot do anything with them at all. If Blizzard wants you to work for your spirits and motes, then at least make them BoA rather than BoP. This seems once more like an incomplete design.

    About not getting any motes from skinning: it seems the containers that should contain them aren't properly itemized yet. When skinning pandaria mobs you get occasional "Plump Intestines" ( ), which currently contain some gold and occasionally some gray junk items. I guess these should contain spirits occasionally (like the "Bloated Stomach" you sometimes skin from cata mobs contains volatiles)

  13. Given that Desade has found some Golden Lotus in Kun-Lai and I saw one pop up in VotFW, I think there must be other herbs it can spawn in place of. Right now I think we just don't know enough about its spawning patterns, but hopefully Wowhead will start to compile some data now that addons are enabled.

    I would LOVE to see Spirits become BoA but I suspect Blizzard would not make that level of effort for a crafting material. But given the fact that some toons will absolutely have no use for them and no way to pass them along, that does seem like a rather odd design choice. I'm really hoping they have something else up their sleeve on this matter.

    I find the plump intestine situation a bit weird as well. Right now I'm getting money and sometimes a bit of junk. It seems kind of pointless to create a drop table for something so boring. Presumably there is something more in the works that we haven't seen just yet.

  14. They are defiantly not done with the herbs/ore/spirit/harmony stuff.
    Several zones have no herb/ore nodes.
    As you mention the plump intestines.
    The other spirits are not out yet.
    I have a strong feeling the spirits of winter, spring, summer, and fall are going to be the new elementals and that the SoH are going to be the Chaos orbs of MoP.
    One of the reasons I hold these beliefs is we have had zero Blizz feed back on the SoH even with all the wailing on the forums.
    I just don't see them leaving motes and SoH the way they are it would hurt crafting way way to much gear would not only be scarce but also cost a fortune!
    What I would like concerning the SoH and motes Motes unbound and freely tradeable.
    (81 on my gatherer from leveling up to 90 all from kills 0 from mining/herbing)

  15. Thanks for the write up on the crafting in MoP, I’ve not have the time to play the Beta yet so your reviews are a nice way from me to keep track on developments. I think maybe you are all jumping to the wrong conclusion on the Spirits of Harmony. You seem to think they will replace Primals, maybe you should think of them as a replacement for Chaos Orbs. Possible logic for this is, Blizzard have finally realised that there is a large number of players who do not run instances and raids, these players were locked out from obtaining Valor points gear and Orbs for top level crafting. The new daily quests offer 5 Valor points which resolves half this problem, allowing kills to drop motes of Harmony would solve the remaining 50%.
    Remember, Orbs are traditionally BoP at the start of all expansions.
    By making Motes of Harmony available from only kills this would fit in with being a reward for questing – most dallies are moulded on killing and not gathering..
    Today you get about 150 Valor points for an instance run – That’s about equal to 30 new dailies quests, working on say an average of 10 kills per dailies you are looking at drop rate of about 1 in 300 kills for a full sprint of harmony – which based on your info is about in line.
    I think Blood sprit and the alike will be the new primals

  16. That's an interesting theory :) You're right that other "elemental" items have not been implemented and they could certainly change the dynamic. Situations like this are part of the reason I'm so hesitant to jump on crafting too quickly. You never know when a revision is around the corner that takes crafting in a different direction!

  17. I wrote a nice long post about how we're currently married to random luck (and that's a new situation, since there was something you could do to get Chaos Orbs even if at worst you had a 20% chance of winning it) to get SoH's and how the resulting throttling of profession leveling (also new) is really painful (and will wreck havoc on the economy/gearing/providing flasks for raid), but what it really came down to was this: something needs to be changed -either add SoH as a drop off the last dungeon boss like Chaos Orb, increase drop rate, make them BoE, or change profession leveling to leave them for maxed. And some sort of Blue post addressing the matter would be great. Something as small as "hey, we're looking at SoH," just so we know if they're done or not would be great but "SoH is done, stop complaining," would suffice too (although then I'd be a sad panda haha).

    1. I want BoE SoH at launch.

      But what I keep pushing for is BoA. It accomplishes a lot of what Blizzard wants - if I need 40 SoH to level, I need to go out and kill billions of critters. But I don't have to go out and kill things on my Holy Pally, DPriest or worse Warrior & Rogue but can use my Mage or Hunter.

      I do admit that BoP SoH are still better for alts than instance-only orbs. But BoA would be so much nicer.

  18. I'm not convinced that your Chaos Orb situation is applicable. We still don't know if SoH is closer to a primal or an orb.

    I will say that changing SoH to a Chaos Orb mechanic would be a bad thing to my mind. In the beginning of Cataclysm when heroics were hard, you could spend 1-2 hours in one dungeon. With the 20% drop rate, that's an average of 10 hours per Chaos Orb. I can tell you that I did not spend even close to 10 hours farming for one SoH, more like one hour. Given the fact that my progress on collecting SoH is not tied to the success/failure of 4 other players, I'll take that path any day. However, I realize that folks who really like dungeons are going to feel differently. Clearly having multiple acquisition methods is the best way to handle this item and I hope that happens before launch.

    I agree that getting a Blue post which provides more details would be great, but they rarely post on tradeskill issues. I would be very surprised if they address this issue publicly, especially since the Beta is not yet over. That doesn't prevent anyone from trying though !

  19. A TSW Consiracy Theory: I don't believe this but it is just possible.

    Perhaps the mythical farms will help out this problem. I.e. what if you can grow things you can use to purchase SoH?

    BTW, I am worried that I have not read anything about Farmville yet. I hope it and Pet Battles make it in ( *cough* Dance Studio *cough*) Any Tillers & farms info found?

  20. No word yet on Farming, I check the Tillers with each new patch. I'm pretty sure that Farming will be a good source for cooking veggies since they recently upped the volume significantly on those in Cooking recipes. But I have no clue as to what other surprises they might sneak into the Farms. There's a Tillers NPC in place at Halfhill, so I'm pretty sure it's coming at some point.

  21. I read on MMO Champion a couple of weeks ago that Tiller quests were implemented, so I went to check on the beta every day for a week and no dice. I'm guessing it was a mistake on MMO-C's part, or maybe I phased it out with questing?

  22. I freely admit that some people don't run dungeons, which is why I said they should ADD SoH to the end of dungeons - so you can get it that way in addition to the world drop method. Since dungeons are how the majority of people gear at first, if it's going to be a key part of crafting then what is the downside to putting it there again as a bonus? Caveat - SoH might very well drop off dungeon mobs, we just wouldn't know yet due to them not having loot currently, and if that's a high enough rate then no need to have them on the last boss.

    I respectfully challenge your SoH to Chaos Orb time comparison and say from my experience they're not really different - but first we need to note that by Blizzard's own admission MoP dungeons are tuned to a lower difficulty than Cata dungeons were, and that people were not running Cata dungeons at the beginning for the sole purpose of obtaining Chaos Orbs. They were in it for the gear, and Chaos Orbs were just a bonus they got along the way. On to the comparison:
    at the beginning the typical RDF dungeon was 1-2 hours with a >=20% chance of getting it (typically more, since most groups did not have 5 people who could/wanted to roll), so average-bad scenario - 1.5hrs x w/a 1/5 chance = 7.5 hours per orb or less. Worst case scenario 10 hours. I put in over 18 hours to level to 90, I've spent at least that same amount since then farming mobs and doing dailies and I have 4.6 SoH. That's 7.826 hours per SoH. Slightly shorter than the worst case beginning-of-Cata scenario but not much, and much much much more boring with few chances of benefit other than the SoH and an overabundance of cooking mats or cloth if you're doing those mobs. Perhaps my luck was towards the absolute-worst-drop-rate-possible-out-there scenario but it's also possible that my drop rate is the average experience - and mindlessly grinding mobs/dailies for almost eight hours just to get one SoH with no other benefit (like powerful Blue gear) and then be able to do one transmute! or 1/6 of the way to a crafted piece of gear! is a lot less fun or interesting than facing different mobs, bosses and mechanics in dungeons. And dungeons only get easier and shorter as people gear up, while farming doesn't really take less time. I recognize boomkins aren't very good at farming near-level mobs due to the nature of their rotation, so I probably looted fewer mobs than you would in the same amount of time, Kali, but to limit crafting professions to toons who are well suited to farming doesn't seem like something Blizzard would do. And again, mindless grinding should be reserved for mount/pet/rep farming so it's entirely optional, unlike leveling professions which have become "mandatory" in most groups.

    To be honest, if the current situation persists, it's likely that more people (and on more toons), not fewer, will be running dungeons than in the past...because the crafted gear will be so rare.

    I've got it! This is all a secret ploy to funnel people into Ench and JC and crash those markets...sneaky blizzard...

    1. Hmm, I never considered my druid well-suited to farming =) She's main spec resto/offspec kitty, so her farming gear is generally pretty sad. On the beta I definitely felt a bit gimp and was gladly buying upgrades from the various gear vendors in each zone. That said, I made a point to farm lower beasts for my SoH test (86 to my 90) so I would roll through them with minimal effort.

      Part of my assumption on the solo farm drop rate is that every toon will end up being run through quests at some point and therefore will collect Motes of Harmony just from questing. To my mind that was not eating up extra time from the player, much like you were hypothesizing with dungeon runs. The difference being that I assume everyone will quest to 90 and you assume they will dungeon themselves to 90.

      If motes drop off dungeon mobs in addition to quest mobs, that would even out the SoH collection rate for both types of player. I'm still not a fan of the "last boss" method that Chaos Orbs used - I guess I'm just one of those players with perpetual bad luck in that department. I'd rather see motes drop from the trash if they add SoH to dungeons. That way all five players are adding to their SoH stash during the run instead of one guy being the big winner at the end while the others cry in their beer.

  23. @ Flock - Tiller quests seem to be implemented, just not available since the initial quest is greyed out atm. The information gained is datamined, not evidence that it is actually working.

    Motes of Harmony - A more common drop off level 90 mobs, as I expected, and I guess it was designed this way to have people level their toons and get out to explore Pandaria. The new level 90 daily zones is where one can farm the Motes (referring only to mobs that currently drop items to loot). Example: while completing some of the level 90 dailys for rep I ended up with 25 Motes of Harmony, was a good day, normally get 12+ averaging 15 min for the dailys in a zone (again not all mobs in daily zones drop loot, still beta remember). I also agree that the Motes and Spirits should be account bound for those of us that have multiple alts, this way we can farm on our favorite toon instead of having to grind away on an alt...

  24. What Darren said :) MMO-C and Wowhead report what's in the data files but very often those things are not activated in the game. I've seen JC recipes on Wowhead for several builds now that still aren't on the trainers.

    Thanks for sharing about the drop rates on 90 mobs, I didn't actually test that. As I mentioned to Flock, my druid is not decked out in good DPS gear so I tend to hang out in the lower zones where fights are easier. But I'm glad that motes are dropping better on harder mobs, that should be helpful to crafters when they reach that point.

    I too am very much in support of the BoA SoH idea. My two strongest toons are a healer and a tank, both with lower quality DPS sets. Being able to choose which toon you farm on has always been a big thing for me since I usually am not geared for it on my main character. I hope Blizzard will consider that when fleshing out the SoH drop mechanics. The current drop rates are pretty strongly pushing players to focus on their DPS classes. Meanwhile the classes that are perpetually in short supply for groups are the same ones that are hurt most by BoP crafting mats. Plus, I feel like making crafting mats BoP kinda goes against the "more options" idea they've been parroting for MoP design.

  25. To help everyone in the beta for testing; you can get the pvp 483 (epic) gear for free except for the weapons, which cost a few hundred gold. I use the pvp gear to test farming areas instead of running multiple instances to get gear. Although this doesn't help some tanks (such as my pally) which only the weapon is usable imo... go figure.

    @ Kaliope

    I am currently gathering data for wowdb so everything I do is being tracked for the main pandarian database. The main areas I'm currently focusing on are picking herbs and mining. I also have every profession since I have copied my live toons to beta. I found your site while looking for specific information and decided to add some posts on what I have found out so far. I'll stop by now and then and post if find it can be useful. But everyone must remember it is still beta and changes are still happening.

    1. That's great that you are using WoWDB for data tracking, I should probably be good and set that up as well. I've been doing a good bit of herb/ore farming in VotFW. Thanks for stopping by to share your information, hopefully in the near future I can start compiling some leveling guides for folks. But yes, giving the changing status of so many things, I'm holding on that for now.

  26. I guess maybe I'm not doing the right dailies then lol. I only got 2 motes from the dailies and did the monks in Krasarang and the guy who gives the quests in the podium halfway between the gate to VoEB and that main city every day for two weeks then gave up.

    Regarding the BoA idea - wonder what they'd do regarding sending them cross faction, like the other BoA items? Could be interesting, if you have a better farming toon on the other faction or you want to finance goldmaking (via profession) on the other faction.

    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    2. The daily mobs I'm referring to are on the north Island in Kun-Lai Summit.

      The motes would work just like the Cauldrons, can only send in the mail to toons on the same server and same faction. They will never do cross faction as it messes with the economy, besides each faction at war with each other...

    3. I appologize, was thinking one thing and typing another, Townlong Steppes is the correct area not Kun-Lai Summit.

  27. Ugh for some reason Firefox won't let me reply to anyone so I keep having to make separate posts on the main article. /End OT.

    I don't assume anyone will level to 90 solely through dungeons, and I only did each dungeon maybe once or twice while leveling. I've been talking about maxed characters the whole time.

  28. Oh and in my experience kitty is MUCH better at farming than boomkin, due to boomkin's slow dps, not intense AoE (we can hit a lot at once but we hit them sort of like a wet noodle), and squishyness. We can tag a lot but we're likely to come close to dying if we pull tag 3 or more mobs, even if they're level 86, at once (and I'm fully decked out in the Epic PVP gear), starfall and mushrooms don't come close to killing even the level 86 mobs, and then we have to stand there and hard cast a few times (depending on the spell) for each enemy while getting beat on, or use up time with gimmicks getting out of melee range.

    I haven't specifically farmed on my kitty on beta but I know on live she's beastly compared to Flock. But this could all be a reflection of Boomkins being underwhelming on both live and beta. I'm going to pull a Friends reference and say that I'd love for them to be whelming ;)

  29. Strange, I never felt that my kitty was competent in DPS. When the Molten Front came out I was getting my butt handed to me in gear that was probably around 350 lvl. Then in Beta I was regularly ending fights with 20-30% reduced HP. Elune help me if an add showed up, I had to pop CDs to survive. I started out in 377 gear, which was comparable to the 378 of the premades. Of course caster types may have it worse, I haven't tried to level any of mine.

    FWIW Readers: MoP seems to be tuned for 378 gear level. If you have alts who are notably lower they may struggle with mobs. Luckily the BOE greens are 364-390 ilvl, so you can use those to boost your alts up. I don't know if the gear vendors will be available in Live, but if they are that's another quick way to upgrade gear that's lacking.

    1. According to Blue posts the gear should be available on Live, mainly for the purpose of being able to get gear for your secondary spec. This was in regards to players changing spec while leveling prior to turning in a quest to get gear for the main spec they wanted to use. IE leveling as DPS since it is faster, then changing to heals or tank to turn in a quest. This is still being looked at.

  30. I could just think that kitty is easier to farm on since it's in comparison to my boomkin, with comparable gear levels. My OS is tank so some gear is reforged for dodge, although I can't imagine that makes much of a difference. Kitty isn't like hunter, dk, or paladin, but IMO better than say mage or boomkin.

    Totally agree about the gear tuning in MoP, although I haven't done much on pre-mades so I haven't really tested it at 378, just above that at between LFR-normal DS gear for the most part. The difficulty I had on my boomkin did spur me to finally spend farm a better chest for my priest on live - she still had a 359. My Boomkin was roughly 392 when I transferred him and I was ending fights the same way you were after leaving the starting area. Thank God for um...the 30% heal and Might of Ursoc, and the glyph that lets me cast heals in boomkin form. And typhoon and vortex, before it broke.

    I don't really think it's much of an issue for the release, but I do think it will make the transition for toons leveled during MoP more difficult. I think the tuning from Cata to MoP (leveling) feels higher than it is for Northrend to Cata now, which in itself can feel tough depending on where you've quested. I hope that's something Blizzard is considering - those toons will be closer to 333, at best, ilevel. Moral - there should be a pretty large market for BoE greens and green crafted gear, unless they keep the gear vendors.

    Here's how it's looked for my other toons, if anyone's interested:
    My mage is having no problems at all but she's at 400 gear level (have not replaced anything yet and I'm ~1/2way throug Krasarang on her) and I'm being careful to only pull one thing at a time.
    My hunter is ~380 and hasn't had problems so far but I've just farmed leather on him.
    Paladin is a ~384 tank. I went all the way to Kun Lai with her looking for ore (didn't find any, is it implemented?) and was able to quickly kill mobs 2-3 levels higher without taking much damage. I haven't even done the easy quest to 86 with her yet.

    1. Only zones with ore currently are: Jade Forest, Valley of the four winds, and Krasaurang Wilds.

      Current zones with herbs: Jade Forest, Valley of the four winds, Krasaurang Wilds, and Kun-Lai Summit.

  31. Also, maybe make the gear tuning comment a post by itself? It's a good point and I wouldn't want it to get lost in the comments/people to lose interest due to me extending the comment thread so long (sorry)/new people to not read it when SoH's "situation" is resolved.

    I'm so curious about the transition from, say, Uldum/TH to MoP that I'm considering leveling my lock from 80 to 85 and then waiting for Jade Forest to open up again and seeing how it goes. That might be interesting, or it could be utterly boring if it's not difficult at all.

  32. I'm planning to do a general information post a bit closer to launch and I had intended to put the gearing commentary in that. I think gear will be a problem for new pandas. The quest gear in TH is lvl 312. My mage recently hit 85 with an ilvl 321 and that included a few of the cheap epics I picked up on the AH. This is a FAR cry from the 378 presumed for Panda zones, so new toons going straight from TH to Jade Forest are going to need to bridge that rather large gap. The gear vendors will be better than nothing, but the one in Jade Forest only sells 372 gear.

    I think this leaves a pretty nice opening for crafters and BOE loot. A crafted 85 piece is 393 and a level 85 BOE is 390. I know I'd rather have an item at 393 vs 372 if I have a choice. Plus most of the uncommon crafted gear is using the "random" stat model, so we won't have to sell 10 of the same exact item. I'm hopeful that the early days of MoP will be productive for crafters since our crafted items are slightly higher than BOE drops.

  33. Desade, are you still there? I just spent an hour farming in the snowy, mountainy northwest area of Kun Lai, looking for GL. I got 28 stacks of Snow Lily, encountered angry elite yetis and beautiful white tigers, some cute fox kits and hairy goats. But no GLs. Could you be more specific? I flew through several ways, including in a North-South pattern where I went all the way from the top to all the way at the bottom and then just moved over 20 yards or so and went back up, and the same on East-West.
    I also noticed that there tended to be 0 herbs around Shadow Pan Monastery (particularly on the west, east, and north sides, slightly to the south there were nodes) and that peaceful place (the sanctuary just to the east of Shadow Pan). I don't know how to do the WOWDB thing but it probably would have been a good idea to do that before I started. I didn't have a lot of time though.

    I don't think I noticed you could send cauldrons. I was thinking BoA SoH might follow the form of heirlooms, and be mailable cross-faction, same server but not cross-server, same faction.

  34. @Flock sorry wasn't paying attention.
    Sadly the GL permanent spawns must have been bugged nodes and as of now they are gone :(

    Update on SoH
    It has been removed from a lot of the crafted stuff.
    Most notably the PvP armor and my fav it is no longer needed to make the new DM cards :)
    Also for folks with no craft to use SoH we now have a vendor in Vale of Eternal Blossoms that takes them as currency like frozen orb guy in Dalaran :)